Comments
Do you have a comment, info, or have you noticed something that you think others should know about. Send an e-mail to thegeneral@twostrokemilitia.com
April 17, 2008
Hey,
Great website. I just bought a 2008 KTM SX144. The power/weight combination is amazing.
I admit I fell for the 4-stroke marketing and I've owned the following bikes after selling my 2001 YZ125 -
2003 CRF450
2004 CRF450
2005 CRF250
2006 CRF250
2007 KXF250
2007 YZF250
The verdict? I'm faster and my skills are sharper on a 2-stroke!
A 2 stroke requires SKILL. When I concentrate on riding skill rather than tractor-like power - I ride better all-around.
I did exactly what your website suggests - I voted with my dollar.
I think the industry is starting to pay attention too. Note that Glenn Helen is adding a 250cc two stroke class!
Great website.
Ron Reidy
April 4, 2008
Our friend Rich Scott #42 sent us the following.
I posted the reply below on thumpertalk a few months ago before the rule changes. Following it are some of the responses. I am also getting some of the members to always refer to 4 strokes as $t instead of 4t! lol and true.
I post every day and make the Kool aid drinkers think a little bit. I have gotten lots of bad gas from 2t haters but more good gas from $t haters so I am up. You get "gas" from other members who rate your posts. If you run out of gas you are banned. Apparently on a $t forum there are more 2t lovers than haters. Ironic eh?
"More and more experienced racers are buying or going back to 2ts. There has to be a reason. If you look at any of the polls, 2t always wins. These are Real polls with numbers and not rambling threads that can not be quantified. How we 'feel' about something does not equal numbers and numbers dont lie.
With the new pro 2t AMA rules, pressure about loud 4t pipes and triple the maintenence costs, the strong desire of European bike makers and Yamaha to forward 2t technology and entry level racers not being able to afford to race 4t, we will have to see 2t survive or we will not have bikes at all soon.
The saying "be careful what you wish for" has bitten big red. Well three of the Japanese manufacturers got what they wanted without balancing the future of the sport and consumer demands with the push for profit. When you push too hard for profit it will show it's ugly head and you get a reaction and it is here.
Everyone in the industry with any foresight sees the advantages as well as the NEED for 2t to be here in order to survive. Honda, 4t racers who want the easy way out and those who have no care for the sport don't. It's simple. Killing 2t will kill the sport. It makes no sense to kill what got you where you are. No amount of wishing can change the fact that 2 strokes built the foundation that got the sport to where it is. Yank the foundation and it all falls down.
I bought a YZ125 recently. It quickly reminded me of how fun and nimble they are to ride. Fun and fast are not confused with 'easy to ride' in this case as it is with the 4t. I have raced 125 and 250 2t for years as well as 4ts recently. I think that all the hardcore "4t is best 2t must die junkies" formed that opinion without having developed the skills to ride a 2t to a level that reveals the advantage.
I have raced a 4t and know its up sides. I dont want to see them go away forever. I actually like some of the differences. I think that everyone is better off for having the choice. I have both in my garage and like it that way.
The point is, nobody wants to be dictated what they will ride and not ride. For god's sake, we are the country of 'freedom and choice' and now we are the first country to face the possibility of having our first choice of bike taken for the sake of someones (Honda) share holders and the bottom line.
AMA and the greedier of the bike makers have almost pulled it off. It is obvious which bike makers are run by riding enthusiasts and which are run by shareholders who do not ride at all. I used to be a Honda nut, but when they showed a lack of focus in the late 90's, I chose other brands for performance reasons.
From here out I will be making that choice based on which bike makers are building great bikes AND doing what is right for all of us. I will be buying bikes from makers who support both technologies. KTM is looking better by the day. DI could be the topper. Yami is also supporting a strong line up across the board. Green and Red may be losing it. Generators and street bikes may be their future.
If you had the tenacity to read this entire thing you must be a 2t nut! "
good write up! very true.
Thats why I read it lol
Couldn't have said it better myself
I wont buy a new bike from a company that has abandoned 2ts... even if im buying a 4!
after reading many posts of pros and cons of two stokes and four strokes, I decided my next bike is goign to be a two stroke. One of the biggest reason for this is the maintenence cost, as I have a family of five to outfit with bikes.
I hope 2 strokes never die.
March 2, 2008
“MOTOCROSS ISN’T A SPORT”
How many times did we hear parents, teachers, or some other “grown-up” say that when we were kids…?
And you know what… as much as it may have pissed us off at the time… they were right… !
Motocross was a raw, visceral, beautiful, violent, dangerous, romantic, un-repentant, world of barking expansion chambers, castor oil, and exotic European motorcycles that captured the imagination of a generation of working class bad boys and changed our lives forever…
No, motocross wasn’t a sport…
It was far more than that… !
In 1971 I attended my first motocross, the Trans Am event at Unadilla Valley in upstate New York.
To say I was blown away would be an understatement ! That gorgeous track... the cool damp weather and the fall colors... The box vans, the wild American pro's and the European stars we had read about in the magazines with their ultra cool gear.
And their bikes... Bultaco, CZ, Husqvarna, Maico, Montessa, Ossa and the early Japanese works bikes. Fast, nimble, and light, nearly to the point of being fragile, they were raw simplicity. Uncompromisingly built for one reason and one reason only... to cover rough ground at high speed !
Best of all was the sound and the smell... The electrifying sound of high horsepower two stroke engines with wide open expansion chambers, and the smell of racing fuel and bean oil, mixing with the smell of Unadilla's damp, churned up top soil…
MY GOD !
I was "All In" from that day on !
While the big four Japanese factories have certainly advanced the technology of motocross, I'm not sure we are better off without the innovation and diversity the small European factories once brought to the picnic.
We're going in the wrong direction today...
Four strokes engines are bigger, heavier, more expensive, more complex, more difficult to work on, and less powerfull than two stroke engines. That's not an advancement in technology... that's going backwards. If it were not for a flawed rule system that allows a double displacement
advantage for the four stroke, they would be uncompetitive in all but the Open class.
Motocross is an individual sport.
It has always appealed to those of us that go our own way.
What we ride should be based on what works and what we want, not a misguided rule change made ten years ago that everyone now realizes was a mistake, or a corporate decision made by 70 year old business men over a plate of fishheads and seaweed and a bottle of saki !
Sign me up for the militia boys !
Motocross just aint motocross without the two stroke engine!
Rich Winkler - Dirt Wurx USA
January 28, 2008
British Championship D.E.P.- ends on the
Two Stroke.
As the two stroke revolution gathers momentum in the U.K. Promoters of the D.E.P. British two stroke Championship are looking forward to a successful series after the addition of an open class last year.
Attracting a plethora of two stroke devotees including former G.P. rider Mark Eastwood the previously billed “125 challenge” catapulted itself onto the national stage in 2007 with a professionally run ten round championship.
With many of the countries circuits suffering at the hands of local council officials armed with the Motocrossers worst enemy, the noise meter, the fourstroke is being held by many as the cause of the problem with its resonating tones travelling further than the buzz from a two stroke.
Britain’s second largest motorcycling organisation O.R.P.A. (The Off Road promoters Association) became the first in Britain to introduce a 94db noise limit for its affiliated M.X. clubs and has received positive feedback from all its members as to the effect of the noise level on race days.
Since the introduction of the four stroke for off road machines the freedom of choice for the rider appears to have been carefully manipulated by the manufacturers and some of the governing bodies around the world, as manufacturers lure potential customers with almost fashion like statements regarding their latest four stroke products.
No-body should have a decision forced upon them as to whether they should buy a four stroke or two stroke, but surely the choice should be not hindered by biased rules and regulations designed to benefit the already cash rich companies and organisations that clearly put their own agenda ahead of that of the average club rider.
Vincent Page
Maico U.K. http://www.maicouk.co.uk/
January 12, 2008
Thanks for helping the fight to keep 2 strokes on the track and in the woods. I don't race, I'll leave that up to the "kids" but I do love my YZ125 in the woods.
My biggest beef with the 4 strokes is the noise, holy cow are some them obnoxious.
Keep up the good work and I'll wear my shirt with pride.
J. Lynch
January 2, 2008
This is a letter written by Johnny Airtime, a motorcycle jumper about is feelings of Four Strokes.
THE FOUR STROKE MUST DIE IN THIS LIFETIME
When engines were first created, they didn't produce much power. They were heavy. They had too many moving parts.
They were called four strokes.
As time passed, engineers figured out how to design an engine to do the same job with half the effort and produce twice the power from the same displacement. The new engine was much lighter. It had very few moving parts. It did everything the four stroke couldn't do.
They called it a two stroke.
The two stroke rapidly showed its superiority by dominating racing, including motocross and road racing. Now they keep two strokes away from the four strokes in road racing, because they run lap times 3 or 4 seconds faster.
There was a time when four strokes were the only option. The blaring blast of one continuous poot echoed through the hills. The loud and obnoxious blasts of four strokes started the general public's contempt for motorcycles, which was also fed by the competitively jealous auto industry and the media, who has to pick on somebody. It should be noted that when a person makes the same sound as a four stroke, onlookers respond with looks of astonishment and horror - and then the person doesn't get invited to respectable places.
Sometimes people ask me to give four strokes a chance. I tell them that nowadays it's hard to find a good four stroke. The Navy keeps buying them up and using them for anchors on aircraft carriers.
Contractors keep buying four strokes to use as filler material on large concrete jobs, such as dams or airports.
Oil companies, with their unlimited flow of dollars, keep buying four strokes too. They'll weld a four stroke onto the end of a drilling pipe. All those excess parts really chew through the bedrock.
Carpenters buy four strokes as well. They pull the valves out and use them to set nails without banging their fingers with the hammer.
Demolition teams buy four strokes to use as wrecking balls to knock buildings down.
Blacksmiths and recycling firms buy four strokes and then melt them down into anvils. There's not much work to do to make the transformation, plus they garner the side benefit of feeling good about cleaning up the Earth.
So I guess I can admit it - four strokes do have a place in this world.
When jumping a four stroke, the rider will discover that a four stroke lands very hard. Its mass, changing direction abruptly upon landing, just feels bad, like landing while riding and hanging onto a huge log. Flatlanding a four stroke is an exercise in pain management. Heavy bikes just land hard.
There's something about a light bike when jumping...it lands more sweetly than a motorized anvil. Jumping is a violent thing, and we need all the help we can get to take the curse off of those brutal landings.
In motocross racing, four strokes sometimes get the holeshot if conditions are slippery. The fun is over after that, when the rider tries to hang on to a bucking, bouncing, farting refrigerator known as a four stroke. You'll notice that four stroke riders in motocross usually tire, fade and get consumed by two strokes like a hog getting consumed by tigers.
The rider might try to continue going fast after being totally exhausted by the four stroke, but arm pump will make the bars rip out of his hands, sending him splattering headlong in a clumsy, unflattering and embarrassing manner.
Then his grim tasks are in front of him, looming like a snarling bear. First task: pick the bike up. If the rider is wearing the requisite back brace, weightlifting belt and kidney belt, maybe he will survive the first test without requiring sacroiliac surgery.
Then the hard part: starting the engine back up. As we know, four strokes don't like to start after they fall down. They're like temperamental Baby Hueys. Big, fat and they don't do what you want them to do.
So the rider kicks the four stroke and kicks it - not the bike, but the kickstarter. Kicking the bike itself comes a little later.
If you've ever kickstarted a four stroke, you'll know it's the yuckiest feeling in the world. It feels like you're pushing your leg down into a mud bog or a huge fruitcake, then it's hard to lift your leg back up. Why? Because four strokes suck! Do this 20 or 30 times after falling during a lung-busting moto and you'll certainly know what leg pump is.
What could be worse? I'll tell you what's got to be the worst. Having a four stroke that's always hard to start is hell on earth. Of course I don't know firsthand.
So let's review. Four strokes are heavy. Two strokes are light. When jumping, four strokes land like a sack of snot. Two strokes land like a feather. Four strokes don't produce much power for their size and weight. Two strokes produce a lot of power for their size and weight. Four strokes have many moving parts that wear out, like valves, chains, cams, etc. Two strokes don't have valves, chains or cams. Four strokes make a rider very tired on the track. Two strokes don't tire the rider as much. Four strokes are temperamental and hard to start after they fall. Two strokes start back up quickly and finish the job. Four strokes sound like loud, obnoxious flatus. Two strokes have a pleasant tone.
Next thing you know, the same ignominious individuals who push the four stroke on us will be trying to sell us on steam engines, and an old industry will be re-born, along with all the hop-up shops that will spring up, claiming to make the steam engine compete with a two stroke. Like the four stroke hop-up industry, it will be all about making money from fools who want to turn a pig's ear into a silk purse.
Those who try to ban two strokes should be forced to kickstart four strokes 8 hours a day, work on rebuilding four stroke top ends 8 more hours a day and race 24 hour motocross races on the weekends with a four stroke.
Yes, the four stroke must die in this lifetime. Trying to revive the four stroke is a sick, twisted endeavor, kind of like keeping a vegetable on life support and trying to make him do jumping jacks.
Hopefully my kids grow up to see a world of two strokes, with a ramp in every garage and a two stroke in every pickup truck. I wanted to pass on the gift of riding to them, so I just bought a Honda Z-50 for the kids to learn on.
Oh NO...it can't be true...
I BOUGHT A FOUR STROKE!!!
AAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!
Johnny Airtime
December 22, 2007
Just received a letter from one of the TSM members about the state of vintage racing in Southern California. This is an exerpt from his wonderful letter.
"I just want to ride my machine without being hassled by the man...and get loaded!"
There is a new non ahrma PV friendly movement that is starting up now and they are planning to have on old school type circuit on the west coast starting next year, so that should be cool (apparently as you are probably aware of the ahrma purists like Dick Mann don't want vintage to be just a side show at the events and are against the evolution machines which have vastly more competitors.)
The post vintage/evolution thing has huge potential, the guys that were in to them in the day are just now becoming old enough to get nastalgic about shit.
You know how stale has modern thumper racing become. We all need spice in our lives, even if it means technologically regressing to a simpler, more pure time when bikes had personality and distinct looks as well as different performance traits that suited us as individuals.
So very unlike the "me too" crowd of the modern 4 strokes which all sound, look, brake, accelerate, suspend,etc. the same. Take me back to a golden era when bikes were more than just mass produced, cookie cutter twin spar aluminum technological marvels with single cylinder formula one motors, that for some reason, just bore the shit out of me.
Anyhew... Got my ring-ding militia kit, COOL!!!...Chris
December 5, 2007
When you get a moment check out the Thumper Talk forum. Now why in the world would I send you to a four stroke forum? Well there are a bunch of Motocross racers that are switching back to two strokes!
This is copied from one post and is worth reading.
"Fact is, MX racing was just fine the way it used to be, then along came the 4-st fad, the mags hyped them up, the AMA allowed the rules to give them a handicap and the manufacturers were shoving them in our face at every chance.......the fad grew to a swell and the 4-st took over.......now the new is wearing off and everyone is starting to see that the 4-st fad has damaged the sport for everyone involved, except the manufacturers......so a change is being made to correct the wrong that was allowed to happen in the first place.
Seriously, if the 4-st fad was not hurting the sport, why are the rules being changed? It is not in favor of the manufacturers, because the 450f class is likely to suffer (in terms of bike sells), the 125cc class may suffer as well (in terms of bike sells) and all the big 4 except Yamaha have removed their 2-st from the US market (08 being last year for Suzuki).
So then, ask yourself why is the AMA doing this change?........... it is because the 4-st fad HAS INDEED hurt the sport as a whole and they see this (so does FIM) and are making changes to correct it.
And YES, the 4-st fad has damaged the sport of dirtbike riding/racing for everyone except those who get rich off it like the aftermarket and manufacturers............think about it....... increased noise complaints, land/riding areas closing because of noise issues, attendance at local-level tracks dropping because not everyone has a rich mommy and daddy who spend crazy amounts of money on the latest racing trends so their kids can race - the average joe who pays his own way, or his average joe parents who pay his way, can't afford to spend $6,000+ on a 4-st, then another $1,000 for exhaust and another $1,500+ when the bike needs a top-end or grenades, just to be competitive.
Even if you love the modern MX 4-st it has cost you more money out of your pocket to ride/race than it would have if you had been on a 2-st - and for those who say it hasn't cost them any more yet,..........let us know what the bill for the first top-end is when you have it done."
Number9
November 28, 2007
It seems that whenever you talk to a four-stroke lover they say that the fours are faster than the Two Strokes. Of course some of these folks are in fantasy land.
On the Moto Drive message board user ty159 says;
"I own BOTH, an 06 CRF250 and an 05 CR250 and my CR250 will run circles aroung the 250F. I'm A LOT, I mean a HELL OF A LOT faster on my CR than I am on my CRF."
October 29, 2007
Love my two stroke cr85.......tried the 150f and wasn't impressed at all.....even passed a few of them in my supermini motos!
Let's lobby to keep 125c two strokes in their own class, too. Not smart or fair to make a youth rider go from an 85cc to a 250F without the opportunity or choice to ride a 125c first! We are still growing and progressing in stages......so should our riding skills!
Mini rider #142, MSC district, Colin Decker
October 24, 2007
Twostrokemilitia,
I just found a link to your site and wanted to tell you I’m in full support of you guys. I think you guys are on the right track but what about trying to do more like actively contacting the AMA and writing the manufactures.
I love smokers and my bike will be pried from my cold dead hands! I think the movement is in full effect right now…..many people I know are jumping head first off the thumper bandwagon but the manufactures need to know this. If they believe there is a strong enough market to support it they will start pouring money back in. I would like to help get something together. Lets make something happen here!
LONG LIVE THE 2 STROKE!!!
Mike Vomhof
Engineer
October 22, 2007
"2 Strokes are dead, long live the 2 stroke"
When Marty Smith dominated American motocross back in 1974, 75, every kid HAD to have a Honda CR. In 1976, 77, 78 and 79 when Bob Hannah and Broc Glover ruled 125cc motocross, Yamaha's were selling like hot cakes. After that, you had Mark Barnett and Suzuki, winning three 125 championships and we were tripping over RM's in the pits. Technological advances in suspension and performance were part of a learning curve back then, and information was not as readily available as it is today.
In this day and age it is very different in the sense that the "big four" all rolled out equally competitive 4 strokes at about the same time, however the cliche' of "Win on Sunday sell on Monday" still applies.
If early next season, 2008, Villapoto or Stewart dominated on say...a 2 cylinder bike that weighed 198 pounds and the bike was available for 09, what do you think would be the next big thing?
32 years ago, some skeptics thought the single shock theory was a passing fancy, needless to say, they were very wrong. Obviously the four stroke engine isn't anything new, its just been revamped and jammed down the throats of dirt bike society by big corporations who persuaded the AMA to make a ridiculous rule change. Is a racer supposed to continue riding a 125 two stroke when in the same class 250 4 strokes are eligible? I don't believe anyone would. Make a rule that gives them no choice until they are all gone and be done with them. Gone is the 2 stroke on the professional racing level.
Me wearing a 2 stroke Militia T shirt will not bring 2 strokes back into the main stream, no more than me wearing a Bultaco , Montesa or Ossa T shirt will help res-erect these three dead Spaniards. However, it will be emblematic of a by gone era, a long era of 40 years when some of Japan and Europe's best made motocross bikes resonated with an bing-bing-bing and not a thump thump thump.
20 years from now you may see Ricky Carmichael walking through the paddock wearing a 4 stroke Militia T shirt while some "tree hugger" who presently is about 4 years old, stands before the Anaheim crowd flapping his yap about how wonderful the advances of non-pollutant electric motors are. For us, the internal combustion two stroke lover and possibly the four stroke lover as well, it will be a sad day indeed.
Marty rode a Honda, everyone rode a Honda, Bob rode a mono shock, everybody rode a mono shock, Bubba and Ryan ride four strokes, everyone rides a four stroke. Win on Sunday, sell on Monday......for now.
Regards,
Joe Abbate - Joe Abbate's Cycle Therapy
October 10, 2007
Permission to step forward.....Sir!
Qualifications: Never rode a 4-stroke, never will!
4-strokes make good pitbikes!
Long live the BRAAAAAPP!
Jay Rapp - Wayne, N.J.
Owner: Get Real Racing (Precision MX Suspension)
October 7, 2007
Is it just me or have more people decided to use two strokes on their own? At a local race today we counted 5 two strokes in the 250cc Amateur Class. The race was won by a KX250 two stroke who finished at least ten seconds ahead of second place. Awesome ride!